WEBVTT

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Let's see if this is going to work. The Twitter feed. See what we've got.

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Slide. It's working. Check. Yes, folks. We've got a little bit of

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babbling here to see what we've got going. See what we've got.

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The Twitter one will let scheduled it to start at noon. Maybe it's going to hold the line until precisely

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sick. Yeah, it's holding the Twitter's holding

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it back until precisely noon. Interesting. Okay, that's kind of a different thing.

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Welcome to those who are sitting there waiting on YouTube. We are just a little

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minor ahead of head ofhead of the queue here as we test to make sure we're live

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streaming out to Twitter. See what we got.

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See up that

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There we go. Is that

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okay? One more time.

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We will see what happen. All right. Well, let's just uh roll on into uh YouTube. it didn't quite work or

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it might just suddenly take off live anyway. So, we will just uh take it away

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and uh get rolling. First things first,

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back up. All right, it's interview 75 and we have Ryan Logan

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from Influence WP and Change Log talking about the power of centralized change

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logs and WordPress maintenance and more. Ladies and gentlemen, it is time for

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WordPress plugins A to Zed, not Z.

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Welcome to another episode of WP Plugins A to Zed interview show. In this episode, we are talking the power of

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centralized change logs in WordPress maintenance with Ryan Logan, where we will be revealing how centralized change

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logs can help website owners keep ahead of the curve in the everchanging plug-in world and more.

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WordPress, the king of content management systems, powering the web with over 80,000 plugins to choose from.

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How do you sort the junk from the gems? Welcome to WP Plugins A to Zed, where

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we've been keeping the pulse of WordPress alive for over 16 incredible years. Join us every week for an

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unrehearsed real talk breakdowns of the latest and greatest plugins, developer, and community member interviews. Some

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weeks, Amber and I team up to dig in. others. I'm flying solo, unpacking WordPress news, demoing a standout

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plugin, or sharing tips to power up your site. No scripts, no pluff, just the

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good stuff from A to Z. So, plug in and let's get rolling.

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Well, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you happen to be hiding out there on the globe today. Coming to you direct from the brewery

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overlook in beautiful southern Vancouver Island. I'm John Overall. Welcome to the interview show 75 on WP Plugins A to

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Zed, where we're thrilled to have Ryan Logan, the IT wizard turned WordPress trailblazer behind influence WP and

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Change Log WP. From dodging high stakes crashes as an interimm CIO in the

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cutthroat world of highfrequency trading to crafting a scam-free haven for plug-in deals and change log mastery.

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Ryan's ditched the corporate grind for a life fueled by community vibes, craft bruise, and a fierce commitment to

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amplifying the little guy in our sprawling sprawling ecosystem. Whether you're a plug-in pedalling dev hunting

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ve partnership or a site juggling agency owner chasing update nirvana, Ryan's got

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the unfiltered wisdom to keep your WordPress world spinning smooth minus the affiliate fluff. So, grab that IP,

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settle in, let's dive into the deals, the drama, and the downright dogged dedication that's making Change Log WP

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and Influence WP the go-tos for genuine WordPress wins. Let's get started.

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Welcome to the show, Ryan. Hey, John. Thanks for having me back. Oh, yeah. Well, happy to have you back.

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And, uh, you know, we had a really good time on the last show. This time around, we're going to a little differently than

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before, but what the heck? I've been working out my my routines here. First

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off, before we get going, for those who don't know who you are, we're going to go a little bit of background history of

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you. Take us back and talk to us a little bit about back in the days when you were an intern grunt uh doing CIO

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high frequency trading and what what was it that led you to WordPress?

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Yeah. So, I started my IT career in 1997. Uh started out as an intern. Uh

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literally sitting in data closets. My task was to watch the lights blink on

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the routers and the switches and to report back and say, "Hey, these are the ports that are the chattiest." And uh so

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I went from that to landing an internship and then just worked my way up over the years. And right before I

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exited corporate, I was uh a interim CIO. So my best friend at the time was

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actually the CIO and he left the company. I took his spot until they found a replacement. So, I went from the

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the bottom all the way to about the top uh before I exited and then I started my

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own IT consulting firm and then I was just asked over and over again uh can you build us a website and I just kept

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saying no no no. So, one weekend I locked myself in my apartment and taught

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myself WordPress and the rest is history pretty much. Well, that's the one joy about WordPress. If

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you have any technical skills, you can learn it all really fast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then also I I

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really have a design a real passion for design. So I I could never really uh

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exercise that muscle with the IT world. So uh it was a perfect marriage for me uh the tech and the design. So

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well let's uh talk about between dogs, hikes, craft beer, bourbon tastings. You know you're a pretty busy guy outside of

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the code cave. How do those sorts of passions help you keep your mindset while you're getting all your other

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crazy things done such as Influence WP and Change Log WP?

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Well, it's it's kind of like vacations. It's something to look forward to, you know. So, I'll just check out uh each

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day, whether it's walking the dogs or go sit outside and have a craft new craft beer that I haven't tried before or

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maybe a new uh bourbon I haven't tried before. It's taking those hikes with the dogs, with the family, uh traveling to

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local breweries and whatnot. Just making sure you get out and as they say, touch grass um enough times to keep you

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grounded. Yeah. So, as far as brewer uh beers go, what's your favorite? IPAs or something

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more darker? Which one? Where do you where do you land on that spectrum of beer?

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Um I typically they laugh. I walk into a a new brewery I've never been to and I'm

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like, "So, what beer is amber in color?" And they just laugh and they're like,

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"Yep, know exactly what you're looking for." That nine times out of ten will work for me. But I've recently started

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getting more into IPAs. Um it's just those are hit or miss for me because sometimes they're a little too heavy.

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But uh I literally I'll try anything one time and and then um I actually have an

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I keep track of everything I've ever tried. So, and I I used to keep track of all the ones I

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tried. There was an app that I used to use that tracked all the different beers that I tasted those like for several

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years when the craft brew blew up around us. Um, that's why I say brewery overlook. I've got a craft brewery right

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off my balcony from my apartment that I stare at and smell what they're brewing on a regular basis.

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Yeah. I use the I use the untapped app. So, it plug plug for untapped app. But

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that that was it. That's what I used to use. Yeah, I would actually. Yep. So, I real

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quick like this where I live in near Charlotte, North Carolina is a big time brewery spot. Um, and I'll actually say

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my favorite are from right around here. And it's not just because they're local. They are literally like my favorite.

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Well, that's the joy of it. And all my favorites are my local ones. Like I've got three breweries within walking

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distance of my h of my apartment. Yep. So, it's always nice to need one. Just grab a growler, go fill it all up. 100%.

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All right. Well, we've had you on the show before back in interview 65. So, what's evolved for you over the past

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Well, that was back in March, I believe. Um since March with um WP Influence and

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what what brought about change log WP? Uh well, Influence WP turned one, we'll

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call it September 1st, so this month. Um what's changed there is a couple big

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changes. one, I used to try to be everything to everyone. So, I tried to promote podcasts, newsletters, all of

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that. Um, hosting companies. I quickly found out that, um, I'm going to be able to serve WordPress best if I focus on

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WordPress product creators. So, that was a major shift, uh, a very welcome shift because it makes my life a lot easier.

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Um, I know who I can help the most. And then the other thing, too, is I used to I used to have to do a lot of partner

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outreach to get this thing really spun up and active. Um I'm finding now that people are starting to come to me which

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is making my life so much easier um there. So they're coming to influence WP

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asking me to be a part of it. So that's uh it also it's encouraging whereas before I had to do the outreach. Um

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change log WP was some a passion project as well that's always been in the back of my mind. I I always knew that I was a

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developer short of making it happen. So you have to find a developer that's uh also passionate about the subject matter

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or it doesn't really work. Um and then that's where a partnership was formed to

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bring it to life to to solve problems and to help people not just to do something that we just thought was

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interesting. That's quite fantastic. Now with the

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influence WP, we'll touch on that real briefly before we dive into change log.

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Now tell us a little bit um it we a lot of people know but not maybe not

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everybody in the audience here uh knows what are the benefits of influence w of

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deep tripping over the acronyms there influence WP what are the benefits of it

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and how does it help not only the creators of products but also the users

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of those products yeah so starting with the creators. Uh

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what I hear quite often um from the creators, they they're developers. They're not marketers. I'm actually I am

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not trained. I'm not a marketer. I don't consider myself a marketer. I just You're getting real good at it.

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I'm trying. Yeah. But there's like the they just want to code. um and they don't want to do the marketing and they

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don't really have maybe they're just starting out and they don't really have a lot of money coming in from their plugins or themes or whatever and they

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want they're they're looking for a way to get their their name out there but they don't have the money to take on a

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marketing firm or pay lots of money to be whatever sponsor some some things.

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So, this is a literally a free way for them to extend their customer reach. As

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long as they offer, all I ask is they offer a deal to the WordPress community, then they're in for free, and I will go

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to bat for them and and help them spread the word. Um, if they're not able to offer a deal, they don't like that model

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for whatever reason, they can just pay a very, very small fee just to help me keep the lights on and I'll still do the

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same amount of work for them. Um, so I've been there. I've had products I didn't know where to turn. I didn't have

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uh the channels, but not all of those things at the same time. So, if you are

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purchasing anything in the WordPress space and sometimes even outside like things that help you with your WordPress

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site that aren't WordPress products, like video recording software for example, you should check InfluenceWP

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first before you purchase any of that. I don't, like we said, I don't get an affiliate commission or anything like

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that. It's just me helping these product creators spread the word. But you are gonna in almost every case you're gonna

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save more than you are on another website that offers similar deals.

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Excellent. And so sorry I I got sidetracked there. I was

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having a minor technical glitch that uh I've solved.

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Um yeah. So now I just got to pull my brain back in because I I'll continue. There's one more point.

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I'll let you think about it. You you continue. Yeah. There's one more really good point. You continue get one more real good

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point and of course Hey folks, this is all live and tape so I'll edit it out and post. Hey, all the all stuff.

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Yeah. So some of the push back I'm going to talk about one of the push backs. One of the push backs I get from product creators is the deals. Uh it's not very

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often but once in a while I get one. So I've literally had a big company which they are now a partner. Um, we went back

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and forth. Uh, no, we we don't really do that. And I said, "Hey, did you you know, you have an affiliate program. You

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are you are giving away 30% of your revenue to your affiliates. What are

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they doing for you?" Well, they're putting their link on a page and we're paying them. Okay. Why not give

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Influence WP at 30% as a upfront discount or hey, let's just make it 20%

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upfront discount and you never have to pay me an affiliate commission. how does that not make sense from a business

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standpoint? And they they would go back a couple of days and then I would get the email that says, "Yes, you have a

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very good point. Let's do it." So that's the thing I really want to drive home to

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people. It's like if yeah, you have an affiliate program, that's absolutely fine. Continue running that. But this is a different approach that you can also

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take, right? That I really want to drive that home. You're giving people a discount on the

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front end. It lowers the barrier of entry. You are rewarding them from the start. Whereas with an affiliate

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program, you are rewarding somebody for literally putting a link on a page and making your customers pay higher prices.

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So to me, it it just makes total sense, but it, you know, it's still a sticking

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point for some. Well, that one does that one does sort of make sense. I I wouldn't understand why a business wouldn't do that. I mean,

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one of the requirements I understood from influence WP, unless you've modified, is that you wanted the deals

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to be as good as their affiliate or better than their affiliate program. So, if the the deal was if you are

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offering a deal on the web to some other partner and it'll say it's 20%, all I all I ask is that you match it. I'm not

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asking for special treatment, right? I just want customers, consumers that sign up for Influence WP when they hit that

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deal that it works and that they know they're getting at least equal to the best deal on the web. I want people to

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be able to trust these links that they hit. Okay. So, so what you're looking for is the best

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deal that they're offering on the web, whatever they're equal to. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, you want to be

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equal to whatever the best deal they're offering out there on the web where it would be because I know there's there's companies that have varying levels of

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deals at different places. Yeah, I'll give I'll give you I'll give you another example. I just this

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happened this past week uh last week. Um they someone came to me, a partner, and

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they said, "We can't do this level of discount anymore because our other partners are not happy because they're

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not getting the same." And then I said, 'Well, this is what you go back and you tell them. Tell them you're taking their

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affiliate commissions away and then and then you'll give them the same deal you're giving influence WP. See how they

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react. And they said, "Yeah, they're not going to go for that." I go, "There's your answer." Yeah, you're paying your affiliates more than

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I'm asking you for. So, it's a no-brainer. And they came back and they said, "This is like a big

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company in WordPress, too, by the way." And they said, "Yeah." They go, "Nope, we're good. We're going to stay with

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you. Keep the percentage." Well, there you go. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, that's what you want to do. But what

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that says is I know that uh Influence WP has started to make lots of inroads all

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over the place. I'm starting to see more and more more and more of it out there in my Twitter feed. Aside from what you

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put out, I'm starting to see more from others, which is a good thing. Um, which

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means you're starting to gain ground. Now, you've also mildly ruffered a ruffled a few feathers lately when you

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uh introduced your weekly newsletter now that you're finding out how much joy a newsletter can be. And uh you know, the

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unfiltered newsletter, it's really quite good. You do have a little differently than what I see a lot of newsletters.

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You only if you're signed up for the newsletter do you get it. You don't have a web page that's got an archive of

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them. What was the choice behind that? What what why did you go that route?

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Well, when I first started InfluenceWP, one of the things, one of the pillars was a bad

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actors program. I wanted to point out people that were doing people wrong in the WordPress space. Uh for whatever, I

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just decided not to do that. I I just didn't want to do that anymore anymore. So, it's always been in the back of my

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mind that I I feel like practices, maybe not specific people, but practices should be called out. In some cases, you

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have to call out people. It's just the way that it is. I mean, you saw may have seen the other day I posted something and I literally had someone say name

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names. So, when you see someone's telling you to name names, that tells me that people are open to that. So,

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y in the unfiltered section of the newsletters, which as you said, you have to be a subscriber to get. I didn't want

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to just come out and blast it all over the social medias, all of those things. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to

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kind of It's not a way to get subscribers by any means. It's just I wanted to keep it um just within the

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newsletter and and not blast it out to the world. If it gets out, it gets out. It's not I'll I would tell people right

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now everything I said in nothing I'm hiding. No. Um, but it's um sometimes you just

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need you just need to call people out on certain things and uh just since

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starting Influence WP, I've ran across some not so pleasant individuals and not

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so pleasant companies and um it's just amazing that when you try to help people

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for free that they there's just that much animosity out there. Uh but it can be a tough it can be a tough slo.

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That's for damn sure. All right. Well, let's uh change our focus here to the change log WP and let's talk a bit about

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this because this one here is a unique idea. The thought had never occurred to me to try and collect the change logs

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and I know how important change logs are to me as a person who manages, you know,

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lots of client websites and I've got to go in and update a plugin. The change

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log is the first thing I look at to see what's going to happen because everyone's, oh, just do your updates.

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They they let auto updates happen. Well, I learned years ago that you do not do that on an active site if at all

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possible simply for the fact that even a company that you've come to depend on for several years of perfect updates

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could have one update that has a code error that they didn't anticipate. or maybe somebody fixing the code took out

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a semicolon and broke the whole thing. So it brings down and white screens your website. So the change log is important

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that I can look and see, okay, what changes did they make? What did they adjust? What sort of things that happened? Now change logs vary in their

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usefulness depending on who's creating them, but they're still helpful. So

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where did this idea come from? What sort of brought it about? Yeah. uh running a WordPress agency

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since 2016 uh managing multiple multiple websites uh you need the change logs are

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so critical to know to systematically how to roll out updates the right way

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you know whether it's updating your site first um updating you know like certain client sites that aren't like critical

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and then you've got those client sites that you know that are super hyper critical you just doing those stage

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rollouts change logs become super important for that you got to know what's in them, um, when they were

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released, um, all of those type types of things so you can make educated decisions on when

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to press, you know, press that update button, so to speak. Um, but, uh, so like if you're if you're

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an agency doing website care like I am, you might have a tool that is centralized that gives you those, but

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they don't there's certain like premium plugins and stuff like that don't always give you the change log. it'll literally

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come back that tool and it'll say we can't we can't give you that information. Um, so what you're left to do is you're

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you got to go out and you got to find the website for the plugin. You got to hunt down their change log and then like

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what I do is I have like this whole entire folder of bookmarks for the plugins. But the problem with that is

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then if you go and you add another plugin to your stack, you got to start the hunt all over again and hope that

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you find it and bookmark it. And that's just one side of the equation. We're just talking about agencies. Like we could get into the the

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professional that's not doing website maintenance. We can get into the DIYers that have no clue what a change log even

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is. Yeah. Like there's so many levels to this.

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There is. Now, with the premium plugins that you just mentioned and their change logs, yeah, I understand the pain of

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hunting them down. Now you've started change log WP by tapping into the

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WordPress repo for change logs. How are you integrating the change logs from

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premium plugins into this uh system? So that that is what we are working on

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right now to try to figure out. So you have some premium plugins that are

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selling with one platform and then others are selling with another. Some are rolling their own and you have to we

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have to get all of the use cases gathered up. We have to do the testing. We have to figure out how to get those

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in to build the documentation to build those systems to see if we can automate any of it. So we are working behind the

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scenes to find all of these individual use cases um as we speak to make to make

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that happen. If that's my computer doing that. No, that was mine.

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Okay. I thought I' I thought I had turned them off, but uh I didn't.

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I usually turn them off. Now they're turned off. Now the notifications. Yeah, that's me because long as it's not me, I'd feel bad if it

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was me. No, no, that's that's that's my system saying, "Hey, you've got emails." Yeah, I know I've got emails. Go away. I'll

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look at them again. I'll look at them again in about half an hour or so. All right. So So you're working through

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the process here of getting the change logs from all the premium plugins into everything. And yet there's multiple

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areas you got to go chase these down whether they do them like I do I do mine

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on the plugins I'm creating over I keep my change logs over on GitHub. There's some sources that you know you buy the

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plug through Fremius and I'm not sure the change log I always find it over on the developers website.

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Yep. And that's the sorts of things that I see the problems you have is most of them will be on a developer's website

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and uh finding out if they've even got an RSS feed for their change log. And some of them do their change logs really

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oddly where they've got the most recent changes but they don't have the whole

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history going back. Like for instance, it's not uncommon for sometimes take two

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or three weeks to do an update and unplug, but they've updated it three times, you know, and they so we've got three

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change logs missing from it from the most recent and going forward. What how

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is that sort of thing um giving you grief?

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Um, I can't really speak to the premium side of things yet because it's still, you know, work in progress, but like the

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the the free plugins, like if you go to change Log WP now and look at it, it's

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like you said, you're going to see you're going to see some that have the full change log since the beginning of time, uh, some only have the latest,

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like I'm looking at one now on my screen that's got like the last three. Um, so

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it it's a thing. Um, but if you go I'm just clicking around them right now and

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just kind of checking them out. Yeah. Well, I'm clicking I'm clicking through a couple here from the website for folks to take a look at here on

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YouTube. Yeah. But I mean at at a minimum we need that most recent at I mean at an

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absolute minimum. Um that helps greatly just having that last one. Um,

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well, the last one's very important, but if you've if you if you've managed to miss a few versions of a plugin,

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sometimes you'll want to know what they've done. Yep, 100%. Like I just clicked on one right here. It's beautiful. It goes all

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the way back to 1.0. Um, the problem is with this one, there's no dates.

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So, which that is a real pet peeve of mine. And yeah, I always want the dates in there because

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you have to have the dates. Yeah, that's the one interesting thing about change logs. There's been no consistency in how

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they were how they were created and put together. It it it takes

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three seconds to add the date. Just just add the date. Yeah. Well, takes three seconds or, you

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know, like when I'm creating my change logs, I just I just copy and paste the previous the previous change to date and

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then put in the latest information. So, if if you can type in 2.0, know you can

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type in January 1st, 2025 or whatever it is or whatever it is that you do there.

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Okay. So, for plug-in authors, plug-in developers out there that might be listening to show, what is the what do

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you want to do to what's the pitch for them using change log to help build user trust with their sites, with their

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plugins? So, there's a couple different things. you know, if this thing goes the way we

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hope, you know, it's going to have a lot of eyeballs on it. Uh, people just perusing, seeing what's out there. U,

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there's also kind of back to what I said, developers just want to develop. They don't want to. There's probably a

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reason they don't put version numbers in there. Probably a reason they don't make them look pretty all the time. Or, you

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know, you've got some websites out there that have gorgeous change logs. They put a lot of effort into them. Um, some

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developers may not even want to be bothered and, you know, they just want a way for us to collect them and display

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them for them. Um, so there's incentive there. We we have long a long-term plan

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to do a unique service. Uh, whether that ever comes to fruition, but we do have a plan to help people display change logs

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on their website in a in a pretty way. Uh, so that's uh coming hopefully in the

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future. But um I would just say the eyeballs, you know, people are here browsing the site looking for change

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logs and you know they click the drop down arrow eventually we'll say premium

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you know what's out there. um just getting more eyeballs on your stuff. And

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I if our copy on the website is doing its job, people new to WordPress, uh

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yeah, I guess even people using WordPress for a while, they want to keep up with change logs, then there's

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incentive to be listed here and be searchable and let people um add you to

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their watch list and so they can keep track of what you're up to. So, I think there's a lot of value in it.

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There is. And you even have a nice search function for hunting things down on it.

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Yeah. And actually it it'll actually unearth things that you can't get from the repository if you want to have a

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have some fun with it. Yeah. Well, there's lots of uh external tools to unear stuff from the repository

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that you can't find in the repository. Yeah. It's a strange

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phenomenon that's irritated me for years with the uh WordPress repo. Yeah. If and if you we're trying to be

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uh to offer more more value to so if you go into like one of the change log listings you'll see on the right hand

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side it kind of mimics the WordPress repository. What we're hoping to do is add things that you can't do right now

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in the repository which is sort by um like last updated PHP requirements

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tested up to those types of things. Oh those would be some nice sort functions.

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Yeah. So it's just Yeah. So, it's just right now it's just the priority. We're working through the priority of things

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and that's getting the the premium stuff in there. And then this whole the whole faceted and search system will continue

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to evolve so we can unearth plugins easier for people, surface those plugins

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easier and have better sorting and stuff like that than what you have we have now.

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The building of uh change log WP must have been quite the feat to pull

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together. Did you get much push back initially when you were trying to build this out and get it launched?

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Push back from the community, community, developers, um WordPress,

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anybody. Did anybody or did people people work to embrace it? Oh, I I've I think we've heard nothing

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but really good stuff, especially behind the scenes. Uh I get emails all the time. Um how do I get my plugins in? And

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I'm just we're it's we're trying. We're trying. you know what is what what platform are you selling on you know it's it's a it's an information

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gathering uh problem right now. Yeah. But um the the response has been

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great especially behind the scenes there's been a lot of good uh like on socials a lot of good interaction but

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behind the scenes it's those emails that we're getting like hey we want to be part of this how do we become part of this

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yeah so the reception's been great I have there I think on social media there was a couple people that kind of had

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reservations about um especially on the premium side of things like how are you

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how are you talking to our sites and things like that but we you know quickly said it's it's opt in like you it's

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we're not scraping your sites. Yeah. You know you know so there's a couple of those outliers that we we squashed those

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and said hey we're just trying to do the right thing by you guys here. We're not you know this is just a a feel-good help

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help people project. Well that's the whole idea is you want

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to be helping people and and helping bring more useful tools to the WordPress ecosystem. The WordPress ecosystem's

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gone through a massive transition in this last year. It's been very interesting to uh see as I've

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reintegrated myself back into it. Now, with with all of you got going on

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here um and with WordPress itself bringing on their AI team for AI

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integrations and stuff, how would you see Influence WP and W and change Log WP

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futureproofing creators against that title wave? that's coming down the pike because that is coming. The the AI is

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coming. We can't stop it. I mean, just this last year alone of usage has been incredible.

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Um, which which AI specifically are we talking about? Creating websites, creating plugins.

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I'm not even certain. I haven't even done I haven't even done the deep dive yet or the dive into what uh automatic's

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doing with for the AI team that they brought on for WordPress. I'm not sure what they're doing yet. I know they

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brought out something a couple of weeks ago, but I was so sidetracked in cro um

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projects that I didn't have the time to look at it and so it got set to the side. But I know that they've got an AI

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team to integrate AI into WordPress core itself.

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I if I if I think I understand what you're asking, I would say that if influence if there is a reason for

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influence WP and change log WP to never exist, then that means WordPress no

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longer exists. Yeah, I think that's my response to that because if they're going to do something with AI

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that eliminates plug-in creators, theme creators, well, theme creators probably coming before plug-in creators.

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Theme creators are I think they're theme creators days are limited, I believe, myself.

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I I do too. I do too. Um, but if if if their AI eliminates these product

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creators, then yeah, change log WP goes away and influence WP goes away, but so

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does the ecosystem. The ecosystem's gone. Like there's WordPress will be WordPress would be

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gone if uh you eliminate the creators, the product creators. They they made WordPress. It was the whole reason why

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when I was opting to create WP plugins A to Z, I had thought about themes and I looked at themes versus plugins and what

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plugins were doing to WordPress and how they changed it. I've been working with WordPress since it was literally just a

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blog. it could do nothing but blog. And when they introduced the custom post

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types and people took that and ran, it became something more than what was

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anticipated. And it's done nothing but extend upon it. And many plug-in developers have found other ways to hook

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into the hooks of WordPress to there's some incredibly some incredibly

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complex websites that are created on WordPress, but it wouldn't be possible without the plug-in ecosystem.

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Yeah, I mean you look at uh automatic's new telix system AI system for creating

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blocks with AI and le let's say that that is as successful as it could possibly be you still are

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going to need product creators to do other stuff. So, I'll just say it again

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like if Influence WP had to go away and change Log WP had to go away, that means WordPress is probably

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not not I wouldn't say not in existence, but it's a shell of what it is. Like,

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yeah, what we know it to be. Um, they'd have to bring every literally

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everything inhouse and that's it. Like like that's the only way.

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Yeah, it's not possible. The WordPress ecosystem has become too bloody huge. you you would lose all of those people

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out there like me that are proponent like that are sticking up for WordPress trying to push it forward doing all

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these you're going to lose all of those people doing that right uh that free marketing

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that free marketing is what made WordPress so viable I was part of that marketing in the beginning I even had

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courses that I taught the local uh a local night school yeah

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yep everybody wins if with how it's going now as long as we just steady the course you you know, shore up some

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things that have happened, keep the train going down the tracks. I mean, we we can keep it going. So,

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well, let's uh let's give a shout out. Who do you think is one of the unsung heroes? We've talked off and off and on

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through this about promoting people and promoting the the

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small or the ones that are doing unique unique things. Who do you think would be

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an unsung hero that's dropping knowledge or tools that deserve a little bit of spotlight right now?

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Dropping knowledge and tools. Knowledge or tools? Knowledge or tools. They they don't always go hand inand

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knowledge usually works out to be tools, but knowledge starts before tools are

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created. It's gonna sound really cliche to say this, but it's there in Influence WP.

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It's it's it's almost all of the partners are doing this. Like it's and this what's what frustrates me the

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most. It's why I dropped that comment about podcasts. Yeah. The other day that stirred some drama is

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there's so many people doing cool stuff that they're not being surfaced. Like there it's just I think I said this on

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your show last time. It's just these echo chambers of promoting people that are inside automatic or that are in these inner

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circles. And that's the problem. It's like, let's say you go on a podcast and some podcasts

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give you a chance to talk about yourself, but they also say like you just did. Here's your chance to mention somebody.

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What what they're often doing is mentioning somebody that's sitting right next to them on the podcast like

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it. So my answer to you is there are a lot of people doing really really cool stuff

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that they're just not being surfaced. And that's what I am trying to do. It's what I am trying to ruffle some feathers

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and get more people to do that have a way bigger platform than I have. Um, but

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the sad thing is like if I had to just answer your question with a real person, yeah,

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it's going to be somebody that's already so built up, okay, by the inner circles and like I don't

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want to do that because we already know who they are, right? It's the AI team. It's the it's the the performance team

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with the Google folks that are now in WordPress, you know, building the all of that kind of stuff. And it's it's all

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these people that keep getting the shine, which they so rightly deserve, but there's a lot of other people that need it, too.

365
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Um for the reasons we just said, like the product creators are what makes this thing go. We should embrace them more

366
00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:25.040
and spread the word more. Um if it if it's not influenced, if you don't want to uplift influence WP,

367
00:38:25.040 --> 00:38:31.920
that's fine. Like let's find something else to to to make that happen. Um, but

368
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.119
I've already built it, so that's partly what I that's partly what

369
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:44.079
we try to do here at WP Plugins A to Zed. And I've made that my goal throughout the entire time is always

370
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:49.839
finding the new plugins. For a long time, our show only featured plugins

371
00:38:49.839 --> 00:38:55.680
that were just released, had less than 10 10 installs. Sometimes we end up with

372
00:38:55.680 --> 00:39:01.119
some that have more, but a lot of times most of what we showcase here is about

373
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:07.440
the new developers and such. And yeah, the the post you made that brings us around to talking a bit about the

374
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:13.200
podcasting field in WordPress and what it is and where it's at right now. It is

375
00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:19.440
a lot of people that are stuck in echo chambers and they're not breaking themselves out of them completely. A lot

376
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:25.520
of them they've established their brands, I guess, and that's where they

377
00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:31.680
stay focused and they often have the same guests on over and over again instead of reaching out to all the

378
00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:37.040
smaller people to say, "Hey, why don't you come on here and talk about it or trying to get out like I've been

379
00:39:37.040 --> 00:39:43.760
reaching out to much in the same way that you had to with WP Influence. I've had to I had to

380
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:50.320
reach out to multiple places. I'm starting to get people reaching back out to me for interviews, which is nice. It

381
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:56.640
does saves a ton of work when they reach out to me versus me having to figure out how to contact them because some people

382
00:39:56.640 --> 00:40:02.400
make contacting them so bloody hard. Yeah. Yeah. I think you I think you

383
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:08.720
already have, but like it just goes without saying like anybody you see roll through Influence WP, hey, just just

384
00:40:08.720 --> 00:40:15.839
tell them like let's do this. I mean, I I think they would all jump on the chance to talk to you. Yeah. Well,

385
00:40:15.839 --> 00:40:23.119
because of the tweet you put out, I managed to find three people that were lesser known to reach out to off of

386
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:30.880
there. Um, because you managed to because you managed to ruffle some feathers and you popped a few things on it and uh out of

387
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:36.800
this out of this thread that came out. I thought it was rather comical when Jeffro uh commented that don't make him

388
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:41.839
come out of retirement because he was the show that started just before me

389
00:40:41.839 --> 00:40:48.400
and he was he was I didn't know that. Yeah. He started his he started WP Tavern. He created WP Tavern originally.

390
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:53.440
Yeah, I knew that. And he kept it going for several years until his life changed and he had to put

391
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.119
it aside. Yeah. Yeah. And and because he built such a

392
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:04.160
reputation, Matt bought it up and it uh turned into what it is now, which

393
00:41:04.160 --> 00:41:10.960
unfortunately it's mostly hardly anything comes out of there anymore. Yeah. When he said that, like I didn't

394
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:18.960
even need to go look it up. like I knew WP mainline like came to mind instantly. Um because that is like yours. That's

395
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:24.000
the type of podcast that I you got me into loving podcast. It was hey you know

396
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:30.160
you could have sponsors but they are like behind the scenes that you go to the website sponsors are listed there.

397
00:41:30.160 --> 00:41:36.560
You know maybe a small little mention but it's like let's get into the meat and potatoes. Let's let's talk about

398
00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:42.800
something meaningful. Um, that's why I loved that podcast and that's why I loved yours and that's why I love yours

399
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:48.560
and it's why I loved like WP Water Cooler. I was sad when that went away because they had that same format like

400
00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:54.640
let's just get to the heart of things. Let's get to the meat. Um, I find myself now like I'm I've I'm

401
00:41:54.640 --> 00:42:03.599
not even kidding. I think I told you this before we hit record. I've been deleting podcasts. Like I just can't do it anymore. It's I I tried to resolve it

402
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:08.960
by putting people on playing it at 1.3 speed, but that is it's like anxiety.

403
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:15.760
Like it's just people talking way too fast and it's like that didn't work. So like all I got to delete it.

404
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:22.560
Um but it's just it now it's when I don't do that it's just fast forward and it's like fast forward fast forward fast

405
00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:28.480
forward fast forward. And I know people have to pay the bills. I'm not yeah against that. It's just I think there's

406
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:36.160
other ways to do that. There are other ways. One of the one of the great ways um like there was mention

407
00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:42.160
about people like sponsors and whatnot. It's like that I went down that route once before with my show um getting

408
00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:47.280
sponsorships and dealing with sponsors I found to be not worth the headache

409
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:53.119
involved and then I flipped to the value for value model. In other words, if I

410
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:59.200
was giving value, audience gave me value back. They either promoted me or helped

411
00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:04.240
us out like we used to have till I let the show mostly die back. People used to

412
00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:09.599
provide artwork for us and links to stuff and people referred new plugins to

413
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:16.560
us. And then of course there were the people out there that gave us cash which was a nice thing. That was some validation of it. And the value for

414
00:43:16.560 --> 00:43:23.760
value model is the one that only is truly the only one that works in podcasting. Podcasts eventually die out

415
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:29.440
if they're dependent upon sponsorships because their content gets stale and

416
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:37.040
like your case, they're like, you know what, I I just can't handle this anymore. And it's gone from their app and they're no longer listening to it.

417
00:43:37.040 --> 00:43:42.800
Yeah. Um I had some I'd have to search for it now. Um, I had some followup

418
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:50.880
people that were like post, you know, following up on my post and one of the things that I responded to said was if

419
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:56.000
people there's different sponsorships level, right? There's um, I've got a budget. I need to spend

420
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:02.560
my money. I'm just going to give it to some podcaster. Okay, there's that. There's there's the friend of the show that, you know, wants their logo, all

421
00:44:02.560 --> 00:44:09.119
that. There's then there's there was another one. There's like a three levels, right? The but the problem

422
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:15.680
becomes then is if you are getting sponsorships just because someone has a budget to spend or they're a friend of

423
00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:22.880
the show, where's the incentive to change to keep like to keep the format fresh or to

424
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:27.920
uplift um smaller players in WordPress or to

425
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:35.200
um maybe have some spicy takes, something like that. Like like where's the incentive to do anything other than

426
00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:40.480
what you just do every single episode? There's none. There's you already have your money. Yeah.

427
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.839
So now a year down the road so and so is like, "Okay, I'm I'm even tired of this

428
00:44:45.839 --> 00:44:52.720
podcast." Like this is ridiculous. Like dropping sponsorships for whatever reason. Then they're like, "Uh oh." Like

429
00:44:52.720 --> 00:44:57.920
maybe all along we should have been, you know, doing different doing this differently.

430
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:03.520
Yeah. Uh you had you had mentioned you'd mentioned something about the numbers the you know people asking about the

431
00:45:03.520 --> 00:45:08.640
numbers of downloads of a show coming directly from a podcaster knowing full

432
00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:15.760
well how the system works. Nobody knows what their numbers are. I don't care how much they pretend they do. What they do

433
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:21.839
know is the number of file downloads from their from their stuff but they don't know if people actually listen to

434
00:45:21.839 --> 00:45:28.720
it because there's a lot of people that are on Ghost. It's like even me on my

435
00:45:28.720 --> 00:45:34.319
podcast app, it's a ghost app sometimes. It's like I'm not listening to shows for a few weeks, but yet the shows still

436
00:45:34.319 --> 00:45:40.880
download to my app automatically, but I didn't listen and I go back to it, it's like I don't want to listen to these back episodes and delete, delete,

437
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:46.640
delete. But yet those numbers were counted as downloads. And that happens across the board. Um

438
00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:52.480
Oh, I didn't think of that. Yeah, it happens across the board for listeners. And so nobody really knows

439
00:45:52.480 --> 00:46:00.319
their li their their listenership. The closest they can get is if they've got a really good newsletter going and they

440
00:46:00.319 --> 00:46:05.520
send out x number of subscribers to a newsletter that tells them how many people are subscribed to their

441
00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:10.560
newsletter and getting information. That's a little closer to a real number.

442
00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:16.800
But the reality is it's like tracking the numbers online of traffic to your

443
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:22.240
website. Are you counting the bots? You know, because there's that other that's the other thing that happens,

444
00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:28.319
too, is bots will come in and download it to pump the numbers. Look, it's the most downloaded show ever. Yeah. You had

445
00:46:28.319 --> 00:46:33.599
10,000 bots come in and download a thousand shows each. So, it's like,

446
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:41.680
so, go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. So, that begs the question then. Influence WP reaches out to

447
00:46:41.680 --> 00:46:47.359
hypothetically get a sponsor. Mhm. What could you possibly give them a a

448
00:46:47.359 --> 00:46:52.720
company then to convince them to sponsor you as far like because if you don't

449
00:46:52.720 --> 00:46:58.240
have the numbers that pretty much tells me that it's who you know, right?

450
00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:04.960
Yep. That's that's what it tells me. That's often what it is that like numbers on the internet people I have

451
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:10.480
all kinds of numbers. We've got everything. It gives us a an idea on what's happening. And Blake here had a

452
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:16.400
comment for us. He's mowing the yard equals podcast time. The only time he listens to podcast. Thanks, Blake.

453
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:22.079
Greatly appreciate it. Appreciate you listening to the show here, too. Is that the the Blake that I think is?

454
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:28.319
That's it. Blake Whittle. Hey, Blake. Yeah, we were talking about you earlier.

455
00:47:28.319 --> 00:47:34.720
So, yeah. So, yeah. So, that makes me think like that makes me think then if if if we don't have

456
00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:42.000
numbers to show where are these sponsorships coming from, why? Yeah. I just I don't really

457
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:47.280
understand the inner workings of it. It just seems to me like it's I don't want

458
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:53.680
to use it's seems rigged. Seems rigged. Well, it could be. You could look at it in that aspect, but it's also the aspect

459
00:47:53.680 --> 00:47:59.680
of all right. So, somebody with X premium plugin, they want to try and

460
00:47:59.680 --> 00:48:05.200
increase their downloads. They go through podcast and they think, "Okay, this podcast talks about a lot of stuff.

461
00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:11.200
They reach they seem to reach a lot of people. They're talked about online regularly." And that's where it is. And

462
00:48:11.200 --> 00:48:16.400
if they reach out to podcast and say, "Yeah, well my numbers, what is my numbers?" Well, my YouTube numbers are

463
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:24.079
minuscule, you know, so I don't have a YouTube numbers. It's like we get a few people live. We get after show uh views

464
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:30.400
of it, as many as 78 to 100 views of the show afterwards. My podcast itself, like

465
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:40.000
this is recorded and sent out into my podcast feed. That number there pumps up. I know I've got at least 3 to 500

466
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:46.640
subscribers, but some some weeks I'll see as many as 1,500 downloads of my show. You know, at one point in my

467
00:48:46.640 --> 00:48:51.839
history, I would see 3 to 4,000 uh downloads of my show. You know, I'm my

468
00:48:51.839 --> 00:48:59.440
numbers have been building nicely in the last year. they were down as low as like 50 60. Um that about this time last year

469
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:05.520
when I decided to make this show more vibrant and do these long form

470
00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:12.480
interviews with people such as yourself that helps give them more information and reasons to listen to the show. It's

471
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:19.839
like and for those that have listened this far in the show, you guys have just gotten some of the spicy stuff and a little bit of inside baseball for it.

472
00:49:19.839 --> 00:49:26.240
Yeah. I mean, what we really need is we we need better analytics. We need how

473
00:49:26.240 --> 00:49:33.119
long like, so yeah, you have 500 downloads for your podcast. How what's the listener time? Like if your podcast

474
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:40.720
is 60 minutes long, but they're only each person is averaging five minutes listening time. That tells you you have a problem with

475
00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:46.319
retention. And you're not holding the attention of these people. Your app downloaded it. They they don't

476
00:49:46.319 --> 00:49:52.720
really care what you're saying. Um, I mean, man, if you could dive in and see when people are fast how like people are

477
00:49:52.720 --> 00:49:59.359
fast forwarding like, oh my god, some of those numbers are starting to appear if people are using podcasting

478
00:49:59.359 --> 00:50:04.480
2.0 apps and but certain podcasting 2.0 apps

479
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:10.880
track that information and pass that information back. I'm not sure which ones. I haven't dug into that. But the with

480
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:16.079
all of the new podcasting 2.0 stuff, I don't have it all attached to my podcast

481
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:23.599
yet. But once that information is going to that information will start to appear in the next few years as far as I know.

482
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:28.800
So there there is some things that are out there.

483
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:35.680
Yeah, it's great. I mean, I'd love to see it. I think of like uh I think of like newsletters. Yeah, great. You have 5,000 subscribers, but if like your

484
00:50:35.680 --> 00:50:41.440
click-through rate is Yeah. min minuscule, those numbers don't mean anything. So

485
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:47.359
u I just I don't know. I just feel like the podcast thing is we need more insight. I need more insight as to

486
00:50:47.359 --> 00:50:54.720
what's going really going on. But yeah, on the newsletter on the newsletter side there, I was dealing with uh a person that I've subscribed to

487
00:50:54.720 --> 00:51:02.480
the newsletter for a long time. They were for a long time she always made it so people clicked in the newsletter to

488
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:09.040
go see the whole newsletter on her website. Then she stopped doing that, started feeding it in, and then she started wondering why her click-through

489
00:51:09.040 --> 00:51:14.319
rates had dropped dramatically. and she didn't take into consideration that part

490
00:51:14.319 --> 00:51:23.119
of the click-through rate of a newsletter is the automatic downloading of images to um an email client. I have

491
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.240
my email client set up so no images are downloaded in any email that comes down.

492
00:51:28.240 --> 00:51:34.319
So what happens I get a newsletter. They don't get notification that I actually read it. I'll I might read the text and

493
00:51:34.319 --> 00:51:41.119
if I think the images are useful I'll then download the images but probably a good 75% of the time I don't. So they

494
00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:47.599
don't get a notification that I clicked on that or read that that newsletter. And that's where part of the newsletter

495
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:52.960
problem comes in is you might be getting this low thing, but is it truly low or

496
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.240
are they just not allowing images to auto download to their email app,

497
00:51:58.240 --> 00:52:03.760
whatever it happens to be. Yeah. And I know a lot of them default to not

498
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:09.040
downloading such as Google and and Outlook and others. They just they the

499
00:52:09.040 --> 00:52:14.559
default setting is to not download images because once upon a time that was a source of spam and a source of

500
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:22.960
headache to your to your uh computer. Yeah. All those things. I don't know. I

501
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:29.200
this the spicy the spicy side of me just wants to keep coming out. But I just whether it's newsletters or podcast, I

502
00:52:29.200 --> 00:52:34.640
feel like it's I feel like it's just it's who you know. Maybe maybe it's who you met at a word

503
00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:40.000
camp. I I have not I haven't gone to one yet, so I don't have that facetime.

504
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:47.280
Um but it's I just feel like it's not the numbers. It's something else that's c you know making this

505
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:52.480
happen the way that it is. But oh yeah, it's part of the it's part of the reason I just said forget it. I I am not I'm

506
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:57.760
not doing sponsors. I'm just doing all this with my own money, my own time. I'm not I'm not doing it. Like

507
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:03.520
it it's I don't know. I don't want to be sound sensitive, but it's like it's it starts getting hurtful after a while

508
00:53:03.520 --> 00:53:09.599
when you give something this much time to a project for a year in WordPress and people won't even like won't even

509
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:16.079
entertain it because you are not so and so. Yeah, I've been there, done that, seen that one. Seen that one down. Seen that

510
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:23.200
one a few times. I've even I've even seen one of the most fantastic uh membership plugins ever created. I saw

511
00:53:23.200 --> 00:53:30.079
the guy and I would talk to him back and forth until he finally just abandoned it and walked away because he got treated

512
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:36.000
so poorly in the community. Well, the along those lines you were

513
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:42.400
talking about like the unsung heroes and all that people doing good stuff like the I had another post. It wasn't really

514
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:49.200
spicy but it was got some traction was mental health and behind the scenes there's product

515
00:53:49.200 --> 00:53:56.000
creators that are talk were talk like they're talking to me about it. It's a problem. It's Yeah, it's people wanting to pay nothing for

516
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:03.119
plugins. It's people u being rude to them on support. It's it's the race to the bottom. It's the

517
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:09.839
it's the the being like held down um not being given a fair shot. Like

518
00:54:09.839 --> 00:54:16.079
people are struggling. Um and it's it's it's out there. It's sad. Um,

519
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:21.760
on that on that on that one thought about people not wanting to pay for plugins and we'll probably close out

520
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:27.119
with this little bit. It was the GPL issue because you made mention about

521
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:33.599
hating GPL plugins. In other words, the ones that have been nullled, not I mean all WordPress plugins are GPL just so

522
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:38.960
people know. I had to wrap that one in my head a few times before I understood what was meant by it.

523
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:44.720
But was that the Was that the the newsletter this week? Yeah, it was the newsletter this week talking about that. But what happened

524
00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:50.000
was it led me down a route of doing some research real briefly and I found

525
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:55.520
something really surprising to me coming from well a site

526
00:54:55.520 --> 00:55:00.960
that I really had some respect for is WP Mayor and they had an article in there

527
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:06.079
talking about the GPL abuse and all of these different websites that are

528
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:12.240
nulling plugins and what stuck out to me that I thought was wrong on the aspect

529
00:55:12.240 --> 00:55:17.839
is they're telling about how bad it is or whatnot and then they go down and list them. And one of the websites they

530
00:55:17.839 --> 00:55:23.440
actually gave a discount code for people to use to go sign up to it. And I'm like, what?

531
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:30.960
Why would you do this and then encourage people? Here, here's a discount code. Go sign up and get these n plugins.

532
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:38.720
That can't be that can't be. Is that really true? Here, I'll bring it up for you. Oh my gosh. That That's next level.

533
00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:45.839
I I don't I don't talk about things that I don't have some proof on. Uh, I was being rhetoric. Oh, yeah. I knew I trust

534
00:55:45.839 --> 00:55:51.359
I trusted you, but I was just like, that can't be true. Yeah, you should be able to see the shared screen. So, yeah. Yeah, I got it.

535
00:55:51.359 --> 00:55:54.759
It's right here.

536
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:01.680
That's unbelievable. Yeah. So, that one there is like really It's actually It's actually kind of believable.

537
00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:08.960
Well, that it's very believable, but it was like really I Yeah. I don't know what level of spice

538
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:14.559
you want me to take this, but this is this is a this this is a passionate passion of mine.

539
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:21.040
I've had I've had the same problem over the years because I inherited a couple of websites over the years where people

540
00:56:21.040 --> 00:56:27.280
had used null plugins and the reason they came to me is because they were hacked. And it's like once I found out,

541
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:33.280
it's like, okay, this is why. and they had to pay me a decent sum of money to basically

542
00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:39.119
undo all the damage to their website as I work hard to keep from using the swear

543
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:44.880
words. Yeah, it's it's it so yeah, we could we we we could do a whole show

544
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:50.960
on this topic alone, but it's also it's an education thing. people. What you just showed me on your screen

545
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:56.480
is what I'm so passionate about that that they are that they are soliciting that

546
00:56:56.480 --> 00:57:02.559
they are not only not educating, they are encouraging the use of those sites.

547
00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:08.799
Yeah. And people wonder why this stuff is happening. It's like Yeah. And that was the one like WP Mayor

548
00:57:08.799 --> 00:57:15.599
is a really good website. Had a nice pod have a nice podcast, but that one surprised me. If you have the platform that they have,

549
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:21.119
they should be leading the charge. in the education space for this. With a little luck with a little luck

550
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:27.680
and some effort over the next year, this platform will be a lot bigger. So,

551
00:57:27.680 --> 00:57:33.599
it's gotten it's gotten bigger in the last year and it's going to continue to grow because I'm looking hard to bring

552
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:39.200
in the people who will encourage the conversations around WordPress that have

553
00:57:39.200 --> 00:57:45.920
not happened like they should. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, at any rate on that note there, I think

554
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:51.520
we're going to wrap it up, I'm going to give an opportunity here where you can tell people where they can find you and

555
00:57:51.520 --> 00:57:58.319
the links to the websites that we've showcased here, WP Change Log and Influence WP will be in the show notes.

556
00:57:58.319 --> 00:58:03.599
Also, where you can find uh Ryan, all the links will be in the show notes where you can find him on social. So

557
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:09.920
take it away, Ryan. Yeah, InfluenceWP uh influencewp.com.

558
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:15.040
If you want uh to buy anything software related in or around WordPress, visit

559
00:58:15.040 --> 00:58:20.160
there first. See if you can save some money. Uh changeelogwp.com

560
00:58:20.160 --> 00:58:25.200
to find your favorite plugins or plugins that you are potentially interested in

561
00:58:25.200 --> 00:58:31.440
and you want to track the progress, see what's going on. Changelogwp.com and just go add those plugins to your watch

562
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:38.079
list. There we go. Well, thank you very much. Don't run away on me. I'm going to play the extra credits here and I will be

563
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:43.920
right back with you. Reminders for the show. All the show

564
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:49.040
notes can be found at wp plugins az.com. And while you're there, subscribe to the

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00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:54.160
newsletter for more useful information delivered directly to your inbox. WP

566
00:58:54.160 --> 00:59:00.799
Plugins A to Z is a show that offers honest and unbiased reviews of plugins created by you, the developers, because

567
00:59:00.799 --> 00:59:07.880
you support the show. Help keep the show honest and unbiased by going to wpplugins.com/donate

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and set the donation level that fits your budget. Help us make the show better for you by subscribing and

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570
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And remember to subscribe and hit the bell to get notifications of all new videos. You can also follow the show on

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X at WP Plugins A to Z. John can be reached directly through the website

572
00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:41.200
wppproadz.com or email him at johnwpro.ca.

573
00:59:41.200 --> 00:59:46.799
Amber can also be contacted through the website at wproz.com [Music]

574
00:59:46.799 --> 00:59:51.559
or email her directly amberwpro.ca.

575
00:59:53.680 --> 00:59:58.830
Thanks for joining us. Have a great day and we'll see you next week.

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[Music]